Q: I have Catholic Novus Ordo friends who dismiss my attachment to Tradition and the SSPX as disobedient, protestant and even heretical. Most of them seem to know their stuff and I am unable to emerge from these debates without sounding ignorant and silly.
A: I think, firstly, that discussing the SSPX is a bit of a red herring. This is because this priestly society merely carries on teaching and practising that which the Church has always believed and practised. It possesses no particular religious or worldly outlook unique to itself and adherence to these priests reflects our Sensus Catholicus. To get bogged down in canon law and the status of the SSPX is really off the point. The real point being that if you believe without question everything which Our Lord has revealed to the human race, and you love him, then there is no real alternative to the SSPX. All the other traditional groups, such as FSSP, have officially met the Vatican authorities halfway, regardless as to how ‘more Lefebvrist than Lefebvre’ they may sound in private conversations.
Having cleared the decks and avoided SSPX v Rome politics, we now come to the root of the conflict, which is doctrine. Without wishing to cast aspersions about your friends, whose evident loyalty to the Pope is certainly heroic and touching, you can rest assured that their clinging to the Novus Ordo puts them at risk of giving up religion altogether. This is what the statistics show: the advent of the Novus Ordo heralded the destruction of the Church. Why was this? Replacing the Traditional Mass with a rite acceptable to the Protestants has drained the Church of the graces normally obtained by the True sacrificial rite of Mass.
Adopting the strategy of ‘pious silence’ may well achieve the opposite of what you are hoping for – which is the friends’ conversion. In reality, remaining silent is virtually impossible, and may be a further cause of tension. Ironically, it may well be that arguing with you may be the only thing which stops them from lapsing completely because your intellectual shortcomings, as perceived by them, may momentarily fortify their position! The possibility of lapsation is a real threat because changing from the Novus Ordo to Tradition so rarely occurs. For most modern Catholics, the default position is abandonment of religion – this is now beyond dispute.
Turning now to doctrine, familiarity with some basic principles will fortify you and give you the confidence to talk to your friends without fear of contradiction by them: These are, to my mind, a few of the basic principles which go to the heart of the dispute with the modern Church, and your friends have to address these problems: The Catholic Church is the sole ark of salvation outside of which no one can be saved. The Pope has no authority to ban Catholics from attending the ancient rite of Mass. The Pope cannot contradict his predecessors on matters of faith and morals.
Everyone has to assent to the above statements in order to remain a Catholic and save their souls. You do say, however, that they are knowledgeable and in this they are no different to other Novus Ordo Catholics, apart from those who simply don’t care, and that, sadly, is the majority of them. Be happy that your friends aren’t suffering from a worse condition, which is blind indifference. Blind indifference on the part of most modern Catholics is partly what sustains the crisis in the Church, people just do not care! It is to your friends’ credit that they do seem to care about such things, and this may help their conversion. Their response to the above 3 statements may well be “No, No and No!” and then what?
Modern Catholics I have known often dodge these 3 statements and make assertions of their own, such as “I believe in the Nicene Creed.” Arguing with modernists is similar to ‘nailing jelly to the ceiling!’ This is because they never meet an issue head on and throw up a lot of smoke. This is what is so frustrating as you can never pin them down and they usually trot out slogans and power phrases in order to catch you out. Most of them cannot resist personal attacks, which are designed to wrong-foot you. “You’re no different to a Protestant, picking and choosing, without recourse to the Pope.” Even when you think you have made some progress by getting a reluctant concession, they’ll often forget about it and will repeat the same errors at your next discussion.
I will come clean; I have never (to my knowledge at any rate) converted a modernist. This is because they work out their religion for themselves, hence they thoroughly agree with it all.
The notion of submitting to doctrinal authority is an alien one, hence, a challenge to their theories may be interpreted as some kind of personal attack (which it is) because it touches their pride.
If they do have sincere curiosity you might do well to point them in the direction of the many excellent You Tube series available like “The Crisis in the Church” series. At least there they can listen to a seminary professor explaining the tenets of the Faith. Another tip is to recommend daily rosary, as Our Lady will keep them from total lapsation.
What is needed is conversion, rather than conviction. People are far more likely to be converted by what they see, rather than by what they hear. It is essential to keep the lines of communication open and remain the best of friends with your interlocutors if at all possible.
Remember that you are not likely to convert anyone, especially not by reason alone, unless you are another St Dominic. God converts, and all we do by our intellectual pride is to get in His way. It is therefore vital to lead a holy life and pray for the conversion of your friends and, in the meantime, trust to God that something you say, or do, causes a candle to be lit within their hearts. This is the only answer I can give, and if you are at all successful in converting a friend, God usually makes sure that you never see the fruits of your labours!
by Joseph Bevan
This is the second in our series of “ask Traddy Daddy” questions and answers. If you would like to ask Traddy Daddy a question, then send an email through our Contact page! Future themes include education, navigating pop culture and courting.
Joseph’s new book, Traddy Daddy is now available from Os Justi Press, or Amazon UK or Amazon Australia.
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